9/19 State Track/Cross-Country Advisory Committee Meeting

"Unofficial Notes"

Westchester H.S.

Doug Speck


State Track/Cross Country Meeting 9/19 - Westchester HS

Present - Larry Yeghoian - Sherri Ross, Dean Crowley - George Varvas - Dan Reinstein - Bruce Shimizu - Norm Guest - John Tarman - Bob McGuire - Paul Castillo - Doug Speck - Scott Fairley - Andy Leong - Ernest Aguirre - Jim Eckman - Bob King - Brian Weaver  

1. Welcome - Larry Yeghoian - Chair 

2. Introductions

3. Approval of 1/11 minutes

4. Additions to Agenda

5. Cross Country Items

--Brian Weaver shared items.  The PA system needs to be improved, as a professional system will be brought in.  More porta-potti's are being brought in.  Any ideas that can be used can be run through Brian and his staff at Buchanan HS.  Brian indicated that this is the last year that the Buchanan group will run the meet, and at this point there is no one in the Fresno area interested in running it. 

--Pasta feed - There is a long history to this area of the event.  It has been come at from many directions.  It was at the Picadilly last year in an attempt to move it from Buchanan HS (which was far removed from the host hotel).  An attempt to increase attendance at the Picadilly was quite successful, with some parents and coaches concerned when seating had to be on the floor.  Over 350 dinners were served.  It is Thanksgiving weekend and we have tried to not have it at the Picadilly but on the campus at Fresno State University, with rooms there that would work.  The information from management was very consistent at Fresno and from other community groups in that they give their staff off that Thanksgiving weekend.  So we are stuck with a bit of a problem with difficulty in moving a successful activity.  Prices are very high the Thanksgiving weekend, but with high prices it is not a true money-maker for a group running it.  The room at the Picadilly has not been reserved this year, but John Tarman was sure it could be used. 

--The medical situation last year was discussed.  At the finish line there are medical staff members, a total of eight in the park area for the meet.  There is an ambulance "on-call" for the meet.  Brian Weaver indicated that there maybe needs to be something in the meet bulletin or coaches packet about where to go if help is needed.


6. 2000 CBED Enrollment for Cross Country

--Range of CBED enrollments allowed by division for cross-country.  This is looked as this as a "model" for cross-country, with the Section Commissioners seeming to hope it will work for other sports.


--Point was raised that many areas have not set up in which division schools will be and are not required to do so by 10/1.  This is a month into the competitive season for many schools. 

7. Procedures for Team At-Large Entries into State Championships

--A form needs to be generated for these entries, and target times need to be set up for each section and each division.  All need to understand the steps under which a team may appear to meet a team time and not go by their placement.  The timing of procedures to publicize these entrants is under discussion. 

--John Tarman spoke to the need for a much more specific criteria needed to determine the teams who can move on to the State meet.


--George Varvas stated that each section has communicated that they will have someone who will handle the automatic entrants, and check those teams past those automatic standards and be prepared to enter them in the state meet.  It was mentioned that team members' names are very important as a part of this immediate process.  There is a limit of 25 teams at the starting line. 

8. State Event Awards Presentation Guidelines

--The State philosophy is to have at the State awards presentations to use special athletes or dignitaries to help. 

--School issued uniforms are mentioned in the state meet bulletins, with victory stand ceremonies included.  Maybe the need to have part of management enforce this regulation.

9. Maximum number of teams at Starting Line - Andy Leong

--Andy felt that about 180 or 190 students per state meet is enough, with us now going over 225 per race.  There is some question about where this number came from.  It was felt that this number came from meet management at Woodward Park as to the number the course could handle comfortably, safely, and fairly. 


--Last year Division I was 187, with a few more this year possible with the at-large entrants. 

--It was indicated that should numbers be a problem, some adjustment will be made in future years.


10. State Uniform Rule

--beginning in our by-laws we have a section that says a uniform needs to contain school colors.  This is applicable only to the State Championship, and Hal Harkness, as the State Rule Interpreter wondered how to handle this the first year. 

--The question came up about a rule that you enforce at the last meet of the year.  Importance of enforcing this at the Section level first is needed at the start of the season. 

--Hal Harkness indicated that it might be best to put this rule off for a year and ask the State Federated Council to provide future interpretations. 

--Hal moved that we recommend that enforcement of this rule be put aside for this school year, and that we come up with some full recommendations for the next school year.  The vote was unanimous to submit this as an emergency item at the State Federated Council next meeting.  It will come back to the Track/Cross Country Committee in January.  


11. Executive Director's Report:  Re: 1999 State Meet Investigation - John Tarman

--John summarized a report on the incident involving the Vista Boys Varsity Cross-Country team who ended up being pulled off the starting line in Fresno after mistakenly being told they could compete in the competition.  State Commissioner Jack Hayes carried forth an investigation and summarized that in a handout that was given to the committee.  Jack indicated interest in setting up policies so this will not happen in the future. 


As part of the recommendations it was felt that a committee should be formed to complete its work five days prior to the meet to review the entrants to the State CC Meet.

John Tarman indicated that the purpose of this committee would be to reaffirm and confirm the entries to the meet, and it would be a cross-country only sport decision.  With the flexibility of the "at-large" situation this committee would handle such calculations. 

Sherri Ross will be assisted by Doug Speck (South) and Scott Fairley (North) with these committee responsibilities.

12. Additional items

  1. Schedule of races

George Varvas introduced a proposal to have the girls races scheduled consecutively and all the girls consecutively. 


Boys I - 8:00

Boys II - 8:30

Boys III - 9:00

Boys IV - 9:30

Boys V - 10:00

Girls I - 10:30

Girls II - 11:00

Girls III - 11:30

Girls IV - 12:00

Girls V - 12:30


Boys I - 9:00

Boys II - 9:30

Boys III - 10:00

Boys IV - 10:30

Boys V - 11:00

Girls I - 11:30

Girls II - 12:00

Girls III - 12:30

Girls IV - 1:00

Girls V - 1:30

Under this system the start of every boys race and girls race would be exactly two and a half hours apart.  Under the current schedule an example was given of a team possibly having boys and girls teams racing an hour and a half apart, with Coaches in an akward position in preparing the second squad. 


--Negative thoughts on the length that some of the second teams from a school would have to sit and wait for their race if they were brought by the same coach. 

--Currently teams can get in and out a bit quicker for travel under our schedule, with this suggestion lengthening the day out a bit for some. 

--John Tarman spoke to the fact that there is great turn-over during the day in meet parking probably due to distances traveling.  Gender equity issues have a competition that favors rotating boys and girls mixed together, with none more important and significant than another. 

--The possibility failed due to lack of a second supporting before the vote. 

Cross Country rankings

--the 9/18 Rankings could not be done, as with the flexibility allowed sections in placement of teams through the end of the month these listings were not available at that time.  It is hoped the three year CBED listing from last year and Sections will have their divisional make-ups available for the next rankings which are due right after the first of October.  

Track & Field Items

13. 2000 State Track Meet Report - Hal Harkness

--the 2000 State Meet in Cerritos was a huge hit, with expenses totalling $60,214, with income $88,500 for a profit of $28,286.  Hal pointed out that the cost of security has risen significantly.  Hal was impressed by the number of people who came Friday at the time of the Pole Vault qualifying. 

--comments were to the artistic and logistic success. 

--Bill Peck and Bob McGuire put together the stars from the past who were brought to the meet to help with awards.  Plans are to continue this procedure by honoring past champions. 

--Dean Crowley commended Hal Harkness on his budgetary expertise and staying on top of the finances of the affair in addition to his other duties. 

--John Tarman spoke of his feeling of being blessed with his quality of meet directors.  Hal, Bob McGuire, and Dean Crowley and group have allowed a gentle raising of the bar each year and come through in super style.  The student-athletes experience an extraordinary experience in this affair. 

--the possibility of moving the award ceremony off of the main field, making it an entity with attention given in another area of the stadium with back-drop, pa, announcer, and special presentors with parent and visitor seating areas as a way of cleaning up the main field.

15. Future Track Meet Site

--The possibility of a conflict at Sacramento with the NCAA competition in 2003 there at Sacramento State was brought up.  One idea was to have it at Cerritos 2002 and 2003 and in the North at 2004 and 2005.  John had Dean Crowley visit him at the NCS Meet of Champions at UC Berkeley to check it out as a possibility as a State Meet site. 

--Dean Crowley reported on the UC Berkeley site.  Dean noted major parking problems.  A great deal of money was put into the track facility, but the restrooms and concession facilities are short of what is needed for a State Championship affair.   

--Hal Harkness brought up that the NCAA Track Coaches may go to a "regionalized qualifying system" for its championships, which would create another week of qualifying before the nationals.  This would send their season a week later, which may make the conflict of the State HS Meet and NCAA Division I Championships not a factor in the future.

Hal's suggestion was that before we commit to two years one spot and two years in another consecutively that we await the NCAA Coaches decision.  The group agreed to do this.

16. Minimum Standards for Track  

--The State Federated Council did accept "at-large" by times and marks for the State Track Meet.  A proposal has been submitted about minimum standards for the State Track Meet. 

A committee of Tom Broome (Oakland), Scott Fairley (Northern Section), Hal Harkness (State Rules Interpreter), and John Tarman (Staff) developed the following minimum standards: 


100mH - 16.49

300mLH - 47.99

100m - 12.99

200m - 26.19

400m - 59.99

800m - 2:23.99

1600m - 5:25.99

3200m - 11:59.99

400m Re - 50.99

1600m Re - 4:09.99

HJ - 5-0

LJ - 16-0

TJ - 34-06

PV - 10-02

SP - 35-0

DT - 100-0


110mHH - 15.49

300mIH - 40.99

100m - 11.39

200m - 22.99

400m - 50.99

800m - 1:59.99

1600m - 4:29.99

3200m - 9:59.99

400m Re - 44.99

1600m Re - 3:29.99

HJ - 6-02

LJ - 21-0

TJ - 42-06

PV - 13-06

SP - 48-0

DT - 120-00 

--Entries per section would not change unless an athlete or relay team did not achieve the minimum qualifying mark.  If a section lost an entry in an event due to a sub-standard qualifying mark, no other section would gain an entry in that event.

--The at-large entry opportunity, which will be effective for the 2001 State Meet, is completely independent from this minimum standards proposal

--George Varvas spoke to communication from Coaches that objects to such a proposal above.  Jerry Luzar, commissioner from Oakland, indicated that his area Coaches were very supportive of entry standards, and that their local standards in many cases were tougher than the state meet guidelines in the proposal above.   


--Scott Fairley from the North stated that people generally there were against such standards.  Jim Eckman spoke to the importance of the state meet experience to all of those who qualify. 

--A motion was raised to have the motion on minimum standards put on the floor was held.  The committee as a group voted against the proposal. 

17. Results of two-four division Track & Field State Track Meet

--A Coaches survey statewide summary:

a) Keep meet as it is - one division one champion 76/206 yes 37%

b) change to two divisions - large & small 32/206 - yes 16%

c) change to four divisions - 48/206 yes - 23%

d) keep meet same but have expand field to 40 and have second race at the competition and have it non-scoring 50-206 yes - 24%

--George felt that this was fairly conclusive to show that the State's Coaches supported leaving the meet as it is.  George indicated that he tried to keep the survey to one coach per school.

--Hal Harkness commented that the state meet appears quite successful as it is, with a good reason from "the bottom up" to be changed in the future.  With this Coaches Alliance survey as impetus it does not appear that the impetus is there.  John Tarman indicated that the State office will send out a survey to all schools if it is desired.