Covering California Prep Track & Field/Cross Country!


Unofficial Notes - Doug Speck

State Cross-Country and Track Advisory Committee Meeting

1/22/02 - Marriott at LA Int'l Airport


1. Welcome and introductions


2. Approval of agenda


3. Approval of 1/9/01 minutes

Cross-Country review


4. State Update/ 5. Championship Event Review -

Success of the activity at Fresno was spoken to by Roger Blake and John Tarman despite serious weather problems with the rain.

Pasta Feed

two sittings will continue

Meet management

possibility of putting out some hay, etc. in case of serious rain


6. Financial update

--2001 State CC Meet $38,270 expenses and $46,222 revenue

profit of $7,952

Fresno Visitor and Convention Bureau upped their donation to the meet to $5000

City of Fresno donation was $7000 plus or minus a small amount


7. State CIF (Roger Blake)

this the 1st of a 3 year contract with City of Fresno - we are tied into for the next two years at Fresno. The City of Fresno was very positive about their involvement with the meet. The City may wish to become involved with the pasta feed. There were about 139 teams and about 30 attended the feed. Less than 30% attended the feed. It generally has been a financial loser. It may have started with the Kinney Regional in Fresno that had a Friday evening slide show and with the state meet past sponsors may have wished to have a gathering for those involved on Friday. The actual feed went back to 1994 with Bob Seagren's involvement. John Tarman pointed out that the pasta dinner has grown slightly, with 380 tickets sold this year. 2001 was an all-time record for T-shirt sales. Coaches packet pick-up on the course appears to be the place to be for sponsors. The city of Fresno will provide a police presence in future affairs at Woodward.


8. Automatic Qualifiers - by-law 1701

it says that the State CIF rules setting up automatic qualifiers for the State Championship, with some descriptors back in the Constitution. It states that eight or more schools are needed for a section to have more than one team into the state meet. Question was about sections without eight or more teams on the starting line at the Section meet that do not receive two qualifiers. In some sections some schools made the decision not to go to the section meet, so sections fell below eight in those sections at their finals. This year the CIF made the decision to allow sections with eight or more teams during the season to have two teams to the state meet even though eight may have not lined up at the starting line at the Section finals. (Team = 5 or more athletes who could qualify as a team for the state meet).

Earlier this month at the CIF commissioners meeting they were asked their interpretation of this rule. They stated that they would like the rule to follow this year's interpretation that if you have eight during the year and not at the Section final you will have two qualifiers to the state meet.

A discussion took place as to how this information could be gathered.


9. At Large Entries - Process and Procedures

The outcome of the at-large process has been not been positive in the eyes of Section Commissioners. The Section commissioners earlier this month asked for a change in the procedure. The commissioners are not happy because they do not understand it, and the computations are sometimes challenging. The commissioners asked to have it made simple if it is used in the future.

Roger Blake has done some work off CBED figures, which tell you numbers of schools, not exactly the number of teams who have the sport. Another option is number of entries based upon number of teams within a division in a section. A possible combination would be an automatic number of entries per section, plus number of teams you have in that division. Looking at wrestling, which gives sections extra entries based upon the section's past success at state competitions, is an added possibility. Wrestling does a four year "how did the section do at the state meet" that determines this last area.

Discussion took place about the lack of history on some courses, weather problems that could affect the at-large situation, and problems with the actual number of automatic qualifiers. The huge difference with the number of qualifiers in track and cross-country between different sections was brought up.

Today's recommendations from our Track and Cross-Country Advisory Committee go for a first reading in February 8th first reading at the State Federated Council. A vote could be made at the May meeting to change the system there is not much time to consider changes.

It was felt that there was a need to look at the number of automatic entries per section. A second question was about the whole "at-large" system.

It appears that the commissioners want something new and they have the ability to bring in something that they wish at some point in the future.

Peter Brewer traced the history of the At-Large process, to allow the inclusion of outstanding teams that are not already in the competition. Dean Crowley brought up why we have state championships the best from each section, and if someone does not make it that is the way it goes in most sports.

Discussion took place as to the history of the at-large process, and possible changes that could take place.

Motion raised about adjusting the automatic qualifiers plus some way to add current year at-large entrants to the state competition. This was seconded.

A study done showed that of all the at-large teams allowed in the meet two placed in the top three in their division.

Movement in the discussion was towards adjusting size of divisions and using history of success by a section in determining state meet section representation. Twenty-four it was felt should be the maximum number of teams per division.

There was a motion towards a sub-committee that Roger Blake would facilitate to come back with recommendations to increase the number of automatic entries and include a proposal for variable entries that could change from year to year based upon a section's history at the state meet.

Roger anticipates a meeting Thursday January 31st - Scott Fairley, Peter Brewer, and Doug Speck volunteered for the committee.


10. Schedule 2002 Meet

8:30 am Division V Boys

Awards 10:00 B V

9:00 Division I Boys

Awards 10:40 B I

9:30 Division V Girls

Awards 10:20 G V

10:05 Division I Girls

Awards 11:00 G I

10:40 Division II Boys

Awards 11:20 B II

11:10 Division III Girls

Awards 11:50 G III

11:45 Division IV Boys

Awards 12:25 B IV

12:15 Division II Girls

Awards 12:55 G II

12:50 Division III Boys

Awards 1:30 B III

1:20 Division IV Girls

Awards 1:50 G IV


11. Coaches' pens

We will do the gift pens for coaches again next year.


12. Rain Course

idea of rain course. Roads are used if there was. Rain course map was produced that was used in the Kinney Regional in the early 1980's. It was used for part of that day, and with liability issues and all would need to be considered should the regular course be not runnable.

Dean Crowley brought up that after the Cerritos rain-out in track there was something set up to have Section reps that could be called at the meet weekend to make decisions on the continuance of a competition if weather was a huge factor.


13. Weather evaluation committee

State office will work on mechanics of how this committee will work in the future.


14. Jewelry Rule clarification

See below in Track & Field Section of the minutes


15. Date Change for Cross-Country State Meet

Sac Joaquin Coaches meeting raised some concerns about Thanksgiving weekend that of meet each year. Family sacrifices for Coaches. Original proposal was that it would take place this Thanksgiving weekend. This can be changed. We do have three year contract with Fresno. Other groups use the facility besides us (JC's week before us - possible conflict). Moving it week one way or the other would have students miss class time. Four sections run their championships two weeks prior to the State Meet, with six the week before. Cross Country Coaches need to provide some input on this. General indication was that Sac Joaquin and Northern section would like to move the meet up one weekend.


16. Increase awards for State Meet - Bob King spoke to the top three teams and ten individuals receiving awards. It was hoped that the awards might be increased. The CIF will gather info from the different sections on awards in Cross-Country, Track, etc. and then have a committee address this.


17. Ideas for improvement of the State Meet.

computer chips in the shoes are done in Michigan that pick up places along the way and at the finish with great success.

CCS would like to see an official meet program in the packets.

Was recommended that all nine names are sent to the state originally. Have the nine bibs and coaches passes in the packets, saves last minute paperwork.


18. Female uniform questions

Track rules interpretations below


19. Other Items -



Track and Field


20. 2001 Event Review

Meet management was not in place at the start of 2001 for the competition in June in 2001. There was a possibility of moving the competition back to the southern area for a year. After meet management was found in Peter Sawyer and Tom Crumpacker from Dixon HS a fine affair was held. Dean Crowley, Hal Harkness, and Bob McGuire helped mentor along the way.


21. Financial Update

revenue was $105,485 and expenses $59,736 with a profit of $45,719. It was one of the more financially successfully state meets in years.


22. At Large Entries - This is the second year of the process. It is based on the 9th qualifier to the Finals over a three year average. It was felt to be very worthwhile last year.


23. Future State Meets

2002 in Cerritos - 2003 in Cerritos - 2004 Sacramento - 2005 Sacramento

2003 NCAA Meet at Sacramento State University. There is a possibility that the NCAA will go to a Regional concept to qualify for its NCAA Division I Championships, which would push the Sacramento State competition later a week. This is supposedly being decided very soon, which could send the 2003 meet back to Sacramento for the high schools.


24. Officials - Northern California

The state has a policy that the officials' associations need to certify and train those involved with the championships. Those for the State competition in each sport need to come from accredited associations.

Northern Cal starters are USATF, not High School association accredited. The CIF office will work on those involved with the State CIF Track & Field Meet.


25. Hytek Entry and Seeding Programs

This June's goal is to go back to each Section's office and have them fill in a hytek computer disc. A common code for schools needs to be developed. This will have to be done with the dos version of hytek.


26. Track and Field Championship Program

Help is needed to upgrade the quality of this program a bit.


27. Pole Vault Opening Heights

Concern was about the opening height. Meet management would like to protect roughly the upper sixty percent of the field with the opening height after seeing entrants from the Section Meets. The percentage protected will be the same for both male and female athletes. It could be put on the internet Tuesday prior to the comeptition. The Pole Vault can take a huge amount of time on Friday.


28. 2001-2002 Track & Field Rule Revisions

Summary of Rules Interpreter Meeting

important points:

a) pole vault pits - There is a national committee that is testing and measuring pole vault pits. The current thinking is that this committee will recommend back to the National Federation Committee that the minimum width of a pit will go to 19'8 and there will be 16' behind the box and a 4' in front of the box. Many schools will not be able to fit a pit on their runway with the track beside it. The cost issue will be huge to retrofit the runway and box pit. This change will undoubtedly go through for sure in the next year at the National HS level, bringing about huge cost implications for schools who wish to continue the event.

current ruling is 16 feet wide - 12 behind the box and 4 feet in front of the box.

b) Other section is that there is supposed to be a mandatory meeting before a game with the captain and head coaches to go over the meet mechanics with the meet referee. This will go over well with the smaller meets, with problems at huge meets possibly dealt with a a "sign-off form" for coaches when they pick up packets.

c) Jewelry - no visible jewelry allowed. It is gone. Kids who have soldered in body piercings will not compete. Medalert chains should be taped, with the label exposed. Religious jewelry should be taken off chains and taped to the chest. Beads in the hair if they are tightly woven will be allowed. Earrings, studs, rings, bracelets, ankle rings are out. Key part of the rule is if it is exposed. This applies to competitors, which means they are at the starting line or have reported to a field event judge.

d) uniforms - bare midriff tops are not acceptable. The jersey (singlet) must hang below or be tucked into the waistband of the shorts or briefs when the competitor is standing erect.

Any visible shirts worn under the jersey and all visible apparel worn under the shorts must be unadorned and of a single (and same) color.


29. Other Items -

Voting members of the committee will be rotated. Rotation will start this next school year. There is a need to represent all sections.



Next Meeting - Tuesday October 1st, 2002

10:00 am - Location TBA - Los Angeles area