2000 At-Large Standards - Teams Announced (11/19/00)

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State Cross-Country At Large Team Adds

GREAT MOMENT FOR OUR SPORT AS A NUMBER OF

DESERVING SQUADS ARE ADDED TO THE STATE COMPETITION

NEXT WEEK IN FRESNO ON NOVEMBER 25TH, 2000

GIVE CIF GOVERNING BODIES CREDIT FOR RECOGNIZING A

NEED AND ADJUSTING THE PROCESS TO INCLUDE SOME

GREAT TEAMS!!!!

 

 

State At Large Additions of Teams who Beat Time Standards and the three situations where there were more than the number of teams who would be allowed and how they were sorted out:

FOLLOWING SCHOOLS WILL BE INFORMED BY PHONE CALL TO COACH SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 19TH.

 

Division I - 19 Automatic Team Spots from Around State (6 available in both Boys and Girls)

Boys Division I - 82:41 State Course Standard

6 ACCEPTED

80:44 Don Lugo - 79:32 SS   -1:57 under SS Standard (5th SS)         

81:26 Murrieta Valley 80:14 SS -1:15 under SS Standard (6th SS)

81:50 Santa Ana 80:38 SS -:51 under SS Standard (7th SS)

81:28 Edison (HB) 80:16 SS -1:13 under SS Standard (8th SS)

81:38 Castro Valley 88:33 NCS -1:03 under NCS Standard (3rd NCS)

81:43 Yucaipa 80:31 SS -:58 under SS Standard (9th SS)

NOT ACCEPTED BOYS DIVISION I

81:44 Loyola 80:32 SS -:57 under SS Standard (10th SS)

82:05 Rancho Cucamonga 80:53 SS -:46 under SS Standard (11th SS)

82:39 Madera 82:39 Central -:02 under Central Standard (3rd Central Section) 

NOTE: LOYOLA WILL NOT GO, AS SANTA ANA FINISHED 7TH AND LOYOLA 10TH IN SOUTHERN SECTION MEET, WITH RULING THAT A TEAM WITH A FASTER TEAM TIME THAN ANOTHER WITH BOTH UNDER THE TIME STANDARD WILL NOT GO IF THAT SLOWER TEAM HAD A BETTER PLACE IN THE COMPETITION.

 

Girls Division I - 100:22 State Course Standard

6 ACCEPTED

95:55 Antioch 105:20 NCS -4:27 under NCS Standard (3rd NCS)

97:28 Thousand Oaks 96:42 SS -2:54 under SS Standard (5th SS)

97:38 Esperanza 96:52 SS -2:44 under SS Standard (6th SS)

98:26 Royal 97:40 SS -1:56 under SS Standard (7th SS)

98:21 Ayala 97:35 SS -2:01 under SS Standard (8th SS)

97:51 Fountain Valley 97:05 SS -2:31 under SS Standard (9th SS)

NOT ACCEPTED GIRLS DIVISION I

98:25 Granada 107:50 NCS -1:57 under NCS Standard (4th NCS)

99:02 West Valley 87:32 SD -1:20 under SD Standard (3rd SD)

99:36 Castro Valley 109:01 NCS -:46 under NCS Standard (5th NCS)

99:41 Yucaipa 98:55 SS -:41 under SS Standard (10th SS)

99:50 Livermore 109:15 NCS -:32 under NCS Standard (6th NCS)

100:08 University (Irv) 99:22 SS -:14 under SS Standard (11th SS)

(ROYAL WILL GO OVER GRANADA, AS AYALA AND FOUNTAIN VALLEY AHEAD OF GRANADA, AND RULING THAT NO TEAM UNDER THE TIME STANDARD WILL BE KEPT FROM THE STATE MEET IF IT DEFEATED OTHERS ON POINTS WHO ARE GOING TO THE STATE MEET BY PLACEMENT ON A RANKED LIST OF THE STATE SCHOOLS CONSIDERED)

 

 

Division II - 15 Automatic Spots from around State (10 available both Boys and Girls)

Boys Division II - (83:48 State Meet Course Standard) 

ALL TEAMS (6) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED

Montgomery (Santa Rosa) NCS

Granada (Livermore) NCS

Burbank (SS)

Paso Robles (SS)

Valencia (Placentia) (SS)

Vacaville (Sac Joaquin)

 

Girls Division II (102:27 State Meet Course Standard)

10 ACCEPTED

96:58 Newport Harbor  97:03 SS -5:29 under SS Standard (5th SS)

98:02 Clayton Valley 107:06 NCS -4:25 under NCS Standard (3rd NCS)

98:32 Brea Olinda 98:37 SS -3:55 under SS Standard (6th SS)

99:17 Ventura 99:22 SS -3:10 under SS Standard (7th SS)

99:17 Mater Dei 99:22 SS -3:10 under SS Standard (8th SS)

99:44 Santa Margarita 99:49 SS -2:43 under SS Standard (9th SS)

101:30 Carondelet 110:34 NCS -:57 under NCS Standard (4th NCS)

101:22 Ukiah 110:26 NCS -1:05 under NCS Standard (5th NCS)

101:53 Claremont 101:58 SS -:34 under SS Standard (10th SS)

101:54 Soquel 99:56 CCS -:33 under CCS Standard (3rd CCS)

NOT ACCEPTED GIRLS DIVISION II

102:13 Trabuco Hills 102:18 SS -:14 under SS Standard (11th SS)

 

Division III - 15 Automatic Team Spots from Around State (10 available in both Boys and Girls)

Boys Division III (84:46 State Meet Course Standard)

ALL TEAMS (4) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED

Campolindo (Moraga) NCS

Acalanes (Lafayette) NCS

Nordhoff (Ojai) SS

Barstow SS

 

Girls Division III (101:54 State Meet Course Standard)

ALL TEAMS (2) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED

Acalanes (Lafayette) NCS

Lompoc SS

 

Division IV - 14 Automatic Team Spots from Around State (11 available in both Boys and Girls)

 

Boys Division IV (85:49 State Meet Course Standard)

ALL TEAMS (6) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED

Piedmont NCS

Arcata NCS

Moreau Catholic (Hayward) NCS

St. Mary's (Berkeley) NCS

Yucca Valley SS

Salesian (LA) SS

 

Girls Division IV (103:49 State Meet Course Standard) 

ALL TEAMS (3) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED

Marin Catholic (Kentfield) NCS

San Marin NCS

Piedmont NCS

 

Division V (12 automatic Girls and 11 Automatic Boys Spots Around State - 13 Girls spots available - 14 Boys Spots Available)

Boys Division V (88:52 State Meet Course Standard)

ALL TEAMS (3) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED

Lick-Wilmerding NCS

Head-Royce NCS

Webb (Claremont) SS

 

Girls Division V (112:17 State Meet Course Standard)

ALL TEAMS (4) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED 

Convent Sacred Heart NCS

St. Margaret's (San Juan Capistrano) SS

Brentwood (LA) SS

Mountain Empire SD (Reflected adjustment in San Diego Div V Standard)

 

Link to At Large Standards by Section

 

Link to Explanation of "At-Large" Situation

 

Link to Executive Director of CIF Jack Hayes and his bulletin with rulings on interpetaions of the At Large Situation

 

 

2000 At-Large Standards - Interpretations (11/16/00)

For your California Prep Track & Field Needs

http://www.caltrack.com

 

State Interpretation for At-Large Entrants to

State CC Meet 2000

 

 

TO:           ATHLETIC DIRECTORS

                     CROSS COUNTRY COACHES

 

FROM:      JACK HAYES

          CIF EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

 

DATE:        11/16/00

 

RE:             CROSS COUNTRY RULE INTERPRETATIONS

 

It has been brought to my attention that a number of situations have the potential of occurring at our State CIF Cross Country Meet that are not adequately addressed within our 2000-01 Constitution & Bylaws. Consequently, consistent with the authority granted to the CIF Executive Director in CIF Bylaw 1107, the interpretations contained herein are effective immediately.

 

CIF BYLAW 1702        AT LARGE ENTRIES

The following two interpretations apply to Bylaw 1702

 

History used in calculating CIF section team time standards

Sections may use less than three years' history in calculating the section team time standard if and only if a section has less than three years history on its 2000 section championship course.

 

Teams in same division from the same CIF section

When multiple teams from the same CIF section, in the same division, meet the time standard and are eligible for at large team consideration, points scored in the section championship division race will take priority over team time when awarding at large team entries.

  

CIF STATE CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIP REGULATIONS INDIVIDUAL ENTIRES

(Printed in the 2000-01 CIF Constitution & Bylaws (page 56) and the 2000 CIF State Cross Country Championship Advance Information Bulletin (page 3)

 

Automatic team entries plus the top five highest placed individuals (not on an automatic team entry), per the criteria in each division, will qualify from section to state meet finals.

 

 

 

 

2000 At-Large Standards (11/14/00)

CIF Section Standards for Cross Country Consideration for At-Large Entry to State Meet Central Section - Woodward Park, Thursday, November 9th (Central Section required no comparison figuring because their section meet is run on the state meet course) Boys: Division I - 82:41 Division II - 83:48 Division III - 84:46 Division IV - 85:49 Division V - 88:52 Girls: Division I - 100:22 Division II - 102:27 Division III - 101:54 Division IV - 103:49 Division V - 112:17 Northern Section - Thursday, November 9th (NOTICE THAT THESE ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME AS THE WOODWARD PARK MARKS) Boys: Division I - 82:41 Division II - 83:48 Division III - 84:46 Division IV - 85:49 Division V - 88:52 Girls Division I - 100:22 Division II - 102:27 Division III - 101:54 Division IV - 103:49 Division V - 112.17 Central Coast - Crystal Springs, Saturday, November 11 Boys Division I - 80:12 Division II - 80:41 Division III - 82:44 Division IV - 83:53 Division V - 85:35 Girls Division I - 96:24 Division II - 100:29 Division III - 99:58 Division IV - 101:55 Division V - 108:08 North Coast (Ukiah High School, Saturday, November 18 Boys Division I - 89:36 Division II - 90:01 Division III - 92:13 Division IV - 92:38 Division V - 95:51 Girls Division I - 109:47 Division II - 111:31 Division III - 109:13 Division IV - 111:22 Division V - 120:36 Los Angeles - Pierce College, Saturday, November 18 (Los Angeles Section sends teams only in Division I) Boys Division I - 80:51 Girls Division I - 100:51 Sac-Joaquin Section - Sierra College, Friday, November 10 (NOTICE THAT THESE ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME AS THE WOODWARD PARK MARKS) Boys Division I - 82:41 Division II - 83:48 Division III - 84:46 Division IV - 85:49 Division V - 88:52 Girls Division I - 100:22 Division II - 102:27 Division III - 101:54 Division IV - 103:49 Division V - 112:17 San Diego - Balboa Park, San Diego, Saturday, November 18 Boys Division I - 83:54 Division II - 85:22 Division III - 85:44 Division IV - 87:24 Division V - 89:50 Girls Division I - 88:52 Division II - 91:08 Division III - 90:19 Division IV - 92:14 Division V - 95:34 Southern Section - Mt. Sac., Saturday, November 18 Boys Division I - 81:29 Division II - 81:50 Division III - 83:21 Division IV - 84:23 Division V - 87:44 Girls Division I - 99:36 Division II - 102:32 Division III - 101:09 Division IV - 102:42 Division V - 111:53 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When will coaches be notified as to whether their team made it to the state meet as an at-large entry? On the "At-Large" Entry Form for the state, it asks for a phone number where the coach may be reached on Sunday morning between 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. The decisions will be made and schools notified on Sunday morning. In Reply to: How many teams qualify to state posted by unknown on November 12, 2000 at 18:14:20: The Southern Section is allowed four teams per division, San Diego, Los Angeles, Central, Central Coast, North Coast and Sac-Joaquin are allowed two teams per division and San Francisco, Oakland and Northern are allowed one team per division. All sections may enter up to five individuals per division, but in the sections that have one team, they must finish in the top eight, sections that have two teams, they must finish in the top twelve, and in Southern, they must finish in the top twenty. There is also, new this year, an "At-Large" process where sections can submit additional teams based upon time standards. Posted by Ken Reeves on November 12, 2000 at 14:42:58: If the Southern Section Prelims were finals: (The Southern Section gets 4 automatics; so, if 11 teams achieved the standard, then 4 would go as automatics and 7 would go into the at-large pool.) Division 1 Boys ---11 teams qualifying for the finals achieved or exceeded the qualifying times. In addition, 2 teams that did not qualify for the finals exceeded the qualifying marks. These latter two teams are not eligible for at-large consideration because only teams running in the Section finals are eligible for the State Meet. Division 2 Boys ---5 teams qualifying for the finals met or exceeded the qualifying times Division 3 Boys --- 4 teams Division 4 Boys ---3 teams Division 5 Boys ---4 teams Division 1 Girls --- 11 teams Division 2 Girls --- 13 teams. In addition, 1 team that did not make the finals exceeded the qualifying mark Division 3 Girls --- 7 teams Division 4 Girls --- 6 teams Division 5 Girls --- 6 teams With 4 teams receiving automatic berths, that means there is a possibility of 34 Southern Section teams being considered for at large berths if times hold for the finals. Usually, times get faster for the finals, so there is a possibility for more teams reaching the qualifying marks.

2000 At-Large Standards (11/07/00)

George Varvas of the Coaches Alliance called me tonight. The CIF is having the Coaches Alliance make the computations for the at-large berths. Here are the at-large times for the CCS --

Boys                     Girls
Div 1      80:12         96:24
Div 2      80:41        100:29
Div 3      82:44         99:58
Div 4      83:53        101:55
Div 5      85:35        108:08

George also said that there should probably be about 7 at-large berths available in division 1 and 10 in each of the remaining divisions.

Walt

2000 At-Large Standards (11/02/00)

Here is what Hal Harkness said in a message posted on the Coaches Alliance web site last night --

Published information from the State CIF and Sections has been incorrect regarding the 10th place time for figuring at large standards. The proposal that was passed by the State Federated Council included the phrase "median time". For D1 it should be 10th place, For D2-D4 it should be 8th place and for D5 it should be 7th place. This is obviously necessary because the at large concept is pegged to the middle of the state finishers in each division and since only D1 has close to 20 schools, it must be less than 10 for the remaining divisions.

If Hal is correct, then the Crystal Springs at-large standards should be:

Boys                           Girls
Div 1  82:41-2:29 = 80:12      100:22-3:58 =  96:24
Div 2  83:38-3:07 = 80:31      102:27-1:58 = 100:29
Div 3  84:46-2:02 = 82:44      101:54-1:56 =  99:58
Div 4  85:49-1:56 = 83:53      103:43-1:54 = 101:49
Div 5  88:52-3:17 = 85:35      113:11-4:09 = 109:02

If anyone spots some errors in these calculations, please pass this information on to us through the Discussion Board.


2000 At-Large Standards (10/30/00)

I spoke to Eileen Roche this morning. She is the Events Coordinator for the CCS. The CCS XC meet is one of the events that she is in charge of.

Eileen spoke to the CIF office while talking to me and passed along the following information.

The CCS office must send to the CIF by next week the average team time by division and gender for the last three CCS XC finals. That is all that the CCS office must do. The CIF will do the rest regarding determining who gets an at-large invitation.

The CIF already has computed the average for 10th place in each division by gender for the last 3 years. This is the at-large standard for Woodward Park.

After the CIF receives the requested information from each Section office, it will compute the average difference between the Section Meet and State Meet times for the last 3 years. It will make this computation by division and gender. The CIF has the times of all CCS teams and other section teams for the last 3 years. So, the CCS does not have to send this information to them.

As far as Eileen knows, the CIF will not send the Section at-large standards (the difference between the State Meet time and the differential computation referred to above)to each Section. However, the CIF will meet on 11/19 to determine how many teams have bettered the at-large standard. If this results in more than 25 teams qualifying for the State Meet in a division, then at-large teams will be eliminated based upon a comparision of the percentage that each team was under the at-large standard. Teams allowed into the State Meet as an at-large entrant will be notified on 11/19.

As per my computations, which are not guaranteed, here are the CCS at-large standards for the 2000 CCS meet.


       Boys                Girls
Div 1  82:41-2:29 = 80:12  100:21-3:58 =  96:23
Div 2  84:40-3:07 = 81:33  102:42-1:58 = 100:44
Div 3  85:32-2:02 = 83:30  103:11-1:56 = 101:15
Div 4  86:51-1:56 = 84:55  107:48-1:54 = 105:54
Div 5  92:23-3:17 = 89:06  125:05-4:09 = 120:56

Andy Chan of SHC made these computations independent of me and came up with the same figues except that he had 2:12 rather than 2:02 for division 3 boys and 1:16 rather than 1:56 for division 3 girls. I have not seen the details of his calculations. So, I do not know whether I screwed up or he was in error.

If you better these standards at the CCS, do not celebrate too quickly. The Southern Section, which gets 4 automatics, had 12 teams under the standard in division 2 and not all of the top division 2 boys teams ran at Mt SAC.


2000 At-Large Standards (10/14/00)

Section 1702 of Article 17 of the CIF by-laws states that the average of the 10th place finishes in each division for the past three years at the State Meet will be used as the Woodward Park standard for each division.

Section 1702 also states that each section will compute the average difference between its section championship times and State Meet times for the past three years. Subtracting or adding the difference results in the division at-large standard.

It has been noted in the "Discussion" section of various websites that the Southern Section is using a 3-year average in computing its difference, that the CCS is using a 5-year average in computing its average, and that the NCS is attempting to use a complicated 1-year average.

As per the provisions of section 1702, the SS is correctly using a 3-year average and the CCS and NCS are using incorrect periods.

I made the CCS computation because the Coaches Alliance told me that the proposal was for a 5-year average and I was not aware until recently that the proposal was modified when section 1702 was put into the CIF by-laws.

The 5-year average difference between Crystal Springs and Woodward Park was 2:20 for the boys and 2:30 for the girls. That is, 2:20 should be subtracted from the Woodward Park standard for the boys in order to determine the CCS at-large standard for Crystal Springs and 2:30 should be subtracted for the girls.

If a 3-year average had been used, then the difference would have been 2:12 for the boys and 2:32 for the girls.

I talked to Ken Johnson in the CCS office yesterday and he said that the standards that I computed and that were approved by the coaches at the pre-season meeting had been submitted to the CIF and would be discussed by the CIF next week.

The difference between the 5-year and 3-year average is minor. However, there is another problem. The Woodward Park standards given to me by the Coaches Alliance were for the average of the 10th place team finish for division 1, 8th place for divisions 2 thru 4, and 7th place for division 5. Lower than 10th place averages were used because the proposed at-large rule was to use the lower of 10th place or the mean number of teams in a division. As an example, if only 14 teams competed in division 5, then the mean would be 7 teams.

As noted above, section 1702 simply states that we will use the average of 10th place rather than the mean of the number of teams in the race. Thus, it appears that we should have used the average of the 10th place finishes for divisions 2 thru 5 rather than the 8th and 7th place finishes.

Obviously, if we use the 10th place averages, the Woodward Park standards would be slower for divisions 2 thru 5 (because the 10th place teams ran slower than the 8th and 7th place teams). This means that the Crystal Springs standards would be easier for the CCS. Right now I do not have the time to make the computations for the 10th place averages ( I would have to look up the 10th place team in each division for 3 years and then look up the times of their 5 runners before I could make these computations). Maybe, somebody in the south state has already made these computations.

In summary the at-large computations that I made are incorrect. How much? I do not know. Further, I have no inside knowledge on what the CIF will do. Will it accept the CCS computations submitted to them by the CCS office or will they make their own computations based upon the actual wording of section 1702 of their by-laws?

As shown previously this year, the CCS at-large standards submitted to the CIF are as follows:

Boys                                Girls
            
Div 1    82:41-2:20  =  80:41       100:22-2:30 =  97:52
Div 2    83:48-2:20  =  81:28       102:27-2:30 =  99:57
Div 3    84:46-2:20  =  82:26       101:54-2:30 =  99:24
Div 4    85:49-2:20  =  83:29       103:43-2:30 = 101:13
Div 5    88:53-2:20  =  86:32       113:11-2:30 = 110:41
 
Walt

This is Hank talking now.  Here's another question - If a third team qualifies
because they met the At-Large standard, does that mean that those team
individuals are then taken out of the results in order to determine who the
Top 5 Individual qualifiers are?  If this is so, then conceivably the "true"
6th & 7th place individuals might actually make it to State if an additional
At-Large team qualifies - make sense?  Does ANYBODY know if this is in fact
true, or only that it makes good sense?

hank

2000 At-Large Standards (9/01/00)

Click here to see the pre-season State At-Large memo.